[CentOS] OT: high static in server room

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
38 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Fajar Priyanto
Hi guys,
Sorry for the OT.
For the last couple of weeks I notice that the static in my server
room is worrisomely noticeable.
I cannot see what may be causing it....
Care to share some of your experience what may be the cause and the remedy?

Thank you.
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Jerry Franz
On 06/14/2011 08:39 AM, Fajar Priyanto wrote:
> Hi guys,
> Sorry for the OT.
> For the last couple of weeks I notice that the static in my server
> room is worrisomely noticeable.
> I cannot see what may be causing it....
> Care to share some of your experience what may be the cause and the remedy?

Low humidity would be my first guess. The relative humidity in your
server room should be between 50% +/- 10%. Too high and you can get
condensation. Too low and you get electrostatic discharges.

--
Benjamin Franz
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

m.roth
In reply to this post by Fajar Priyanto
Fajar Priyanto wrote:
> Hi guys,
> Sorry for the OT.
> For the last couple of weeks I notice that the static in my server
> room is worrisomely noticeable.
> I cannot see what may be causing it....
> Care to share some of your experience what may be the cause and the
> remedy?
>
Change the settings on the HVAC units to humidify it *some*.

       mark

_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Brunner, Brian T.
In reply to this post by Fajar Priyanto
[hidden email] wrote:

> Hi guys,
> Sorry for the OT.
> For the last couple of weeks I notice that the static in my server
> room is worrisomely noticeable.
> I cannot see what may be causing it....
> Care to share some of your experience what may be the cause
> and the remedy?
>
> Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Causes:
Low humidity for temperature
Improper footwear.

Solutions:
Air ionizer in server room
Tweak humidity/temp control
Felt slippers and/or anti-static grounding straps.


Insert spiffy .sig here:
Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary parts.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
moments that take our breath away.


//me
*******************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this
email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses.
www.Hubbell.com - Hubbell Incorporated**

_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Kevin Thorpe
In reply to this post by Fajar Priyanto
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Fajar Priyanto <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> Sorry for the OT.
> For the last couple of weeks I notice that the static in my server
> room is worrisomely noticeable.
> I cannot see what may be causing it....
> Care to share some of your experience what may be the cause and the remedy?

We used to have real problems. If you walked across the floor and
reached towards
our mini it would spontaneously reboot. Not fun. We initially treated
the carpet with
an antistatic spray but ended up installing anti-static carpet tiles
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

robkampen
In reply to this post by Fajar Priyanto
Fajar Priyanto wrote:
> Hi guys,
> Sorry for the OT.
> For the last couple of weeks I notice that the static in my server
> room is worrisomely noticeable.
> I cannot see what may be causing it....
> Care to share some of your experience what may be the cause and the remedy?
>  
Check the humidity - if it gets too low (< 20%) this can cause problems
> Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>  

_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

rkampen.vcf (337 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Robert Heller
In reply to this post by Kevin Thorpe
At Tue, 14 Jun 2011 17:31:02 +0100 CentOS mailing list <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Fajar Priyanto <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> > Sorry for the OT.
> > For the last couple of weeks I notice that the static in my server
> > room is worrisomely noticeable.
> > I cannot see what may be causing it....
> > Care to share some of your experience what may be the cause and the remedy?
>
> We used to have real problems. If you walked across the floor and
> reached towards
> our mini it would spontaneously reboot. Not fun. We initially treated
> the carpet with
> an antistatic spray but ended up installing anti-static carpet tiles

Carpets are generally contra-indicated with ANY sort of computer
equipment.  Ideal floor: your basic institutional linoleum tiles.  Yes,
it is ugly, but...

> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>
>                                                                    

--
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / [hidden email]
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                             
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Kevin Thorpe
>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Fajar Priyanto <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi guys,
>> > Sorry for the OT.
>> > For the last couple of weeks I notice that the static in my server
>> > room is worrisomely noticeable.
>> > I cannot see what may be causing it....
>> > Care to share some of your experience what may be the cause and the remedy?
>>
>> We used to have real problems. If you walked across the floor and
>> reached towards
>> our mini it would spontaneously reboot. Not fun. We initially treated
>> the carpet with
>> an antistatic spray but ended up installing anti-static carpet tiles
>
> Carpets are generally contra-indicated with ANY sort of computer
> equipment.  Ideal floor: your basic institutional linoleum tiles.  Yes,
> it is ugly, but...

I know that, you know that, but the powers that be insist on carpet on the
raised floor tiles.
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

m.roth
Kevin Thorpe wrote:

>>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Fajar Priyanto <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Hi guys,
>>> > Sorry for the OT.
>>> > For the last couple of weeks I notice that the static in my server
>>> > room is worrisomely noticeable.
>>> > I cannot see what may be causing it....
>>> > Care to share some of your experience what may be the cause and the
>>> remedy?
>>>
>>> We used to have real problems. If you walked across the floor and
>>> reached towards our mini it would spontaneously reboot. Not fun. We
>>> initially treated the carpet with
>>> an antistatic spray but ended up installing anti-static carpet tiles
>>
>> Carpets are generally contra-indicated with ANY sort of computer
>> equipment.  Ideal floor: your basic institutional linoleum tiles.  Yes,
>> it is ugly, but...
>
> I know that, you know that, but the powers that be insist on carpet on the
> raised floor tiles.

Has anyone presented them with the problems with carpeting in the server
room? Doesn't have to be confrontational, just "we're having a problem
with static discharges in the server room, and one of the sources is the
carpeting. We may have to have folks wearing static-discharge anklets, or
put metal strips in to ground everything. <offhandedly>This wouldn't be an
issue if we didn't have carpeting....</offhandedly> Can we look at
solutions for this problem, that can cause shorts and servers crashing?"

     mark

        mark

_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Kevin Thorpe
>> I know that, you know that, but the powers that be insist on carpet on the
>> raised floor tiles.
>
> Has anyone presented them with the problems with carpeting in the server
> room? Doesn't have to be confrontational, just "we're having a problem
> with static discharges in the server room, and one of the sources is the
> carpeting. We may have to have folks wearing static-discharge anklets, or
> put metal strips in to ground everything. <offhandedly>This wouldn't be an
> issue if we didn't have carpeting....</offhandedly> Can we look at
> solutions for this problem, that can cause shorts and servers crashing?"

Sorry, 'insisted'. Previous job and the proper computer room chock full of big
iron had to look spotless. I spent a good hour each shift polishing the boxen.
Pointless when everything was air conditioned to death but we worked there
behind a big picture window for the bigwigs to ogle at.

Now all our gear is in a datacentre 250 miles away and as long as it works
it's not my problem. If it stops working it's still not my problem because
they suddenly owe us a load of dosh. That room is all cold hard metal panels
and steel mesh. Uncomfortable for people but then nobody has to touch the
stuff until it breaks - and that's incredibly rare now.
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

John R Pierce
In reply to this post by Kevin Thorpe
On 06/14/11 12:27 PM, Kevin Thorpe wrote:
> I know that, you know that, but the powers that be insist on carpet on the
> raised floor tiles.

there are carpets that have conductive fibers woven into them
specifically to combat static.

carpet is usually banned from computer rooms because it encourages lint
and dust, which clogs fans and chassis and air filters.    most data
centers do NOT want the janitors in there doing weekly vacuuming and
banging into the servers!!



--
john r pierce                            N 37, W 122
santa cruz ca                         mid-left coast

_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

m.roth
In reply to this post by Kevin Thorpe
Kevin Thorpe wrote:

>>> I know that, you know that, but the powers that be insist on carpet on
>>> the raised floor tiles.
>>
>> Has anyone presented them with the problems with carpeting in the server
>> room? Doesn't have to be confrontational, just "we're having a problem
>> with static discharges in the server room, and one of the sources is the
>> carpeting. We may have to have folks wearing static-discharge anklets,
>> or put metal strips in to ground everything. <offhandedly>This wouldn't
>> be an issue if we didn't have carpeting....</offhandedly> Can we look at
>> solutions for this problem, that can cause shorts and servers crashing?"
>
> Sorry, 'insisted'. Previous job and the proper computer room chock full of
> big iron had to look spotless. I spent a good hour each shift polishing
> the boxen.

Huh? They had an admin doing *cleaning*, every shift? Talk about wasting
money!

> Pointless when everything was air conditioned to death but we worked there
> behind a big picture window for the bigwigs to ogle at.

Ah, so the answer was "why don't we get a consultant in from, say, IBM, to
help solve our problem?" <g>
>
> Now all our gear is in a datacentre 250 miles away and as long as it works
> it's not my problem. If it stops working it's still not my problem because
> they suddenly owe us a load of dosh. That room is all cold hard metal
> panels and steel mesh. Uncomfortable for people but then nobody has to
> touch the stuff until it breaks - and that's incredibly rare now.

Right. I can avoid going into the server rooms (sorry, "computer labs")
for days at a time.

         mark

_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Kevin Thorpe
In reply to this post by John R Pierce
> carpet is usually banned from computer rooms because it encourages lint
> and dust, which clogs fans and chassis and air filters.    most data
> centers do NOT want the janitors in there doing weekly vacuuming and
> banging into the servers!!

This was a mainframe shop and we were the fishes swimming around behind
the picture window. After you've spent £4 million on a computer you want to
show it off..... and we did the cleaning, not a cleaner in sight
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

aurfalien
On Jun 14, 2011, at 12:54 PM, Kevin Thorpe wrote:

>> carpet is usually banned from computer rooms because it encourages  
>> lint
>> and dust, which clogs fans and chassis and air filters.    most data
>> centers do NOT want the janitors in there doing weekly vacuuming and
>> banging into the servers!!
>
> This was a mainframe shop and we were the fishes swimming around  
> behind
> the picture window. After you've spent £4 million on a computer you  
> want to
> show it off..... and we did the cleaning, not a cleaner in sight

Yea, NetApp does the same.

Carpet is quieter and looks nicer.

I did a small room once were I stitched together carpet of a Lego  
scene, was really fun.

I was working for Burt Ward at one time (Robin from Batman TV series)  
and was gonna do a bat cave inspired room with fake rocks,  
stalactites, cool lighting, etc...

- aurf
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Fajar Priyanto
Thanks all for the reply.
What is the worst thing can happen from excessive static?
We have two corrupted UEFI when we reboot servers which now I suspect
because of static.
Yesterday I actually saw a spark when I put a memory module on
motherboard even though I was careful like touching the metal casing
first. That just blow my mind and made me ask you in this list.
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

John R Pierce
On 06/14/11 5:04 PM, Fajar Priyanto wrote:
> What is the worst thing can happen from excessive static?

fried electronics.  or, imho worse than total failure, is downstream
flakiness induced by partial gate failures from said static zaps.



--
john r pierce                            N 37, W 122
santa cruz ca                         mid-left coast

_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Brunner, Brian T.
[hidden email] wrote:
> On 06/14/11 5:04 PM, Fajar Priyanto wrote:
>> What is the worst thing can happen from excessive static?

ESD (Electro-static Discharge) is the "Radioactive Crystal Meth" of
computers.  How much you can take before you exhibit measurable
capability loss is a detail of interest only to people with no vested
interest in the operation.  *ANY* ESD is a bullet hole.  Avoid them like
a painful death.

> fried electronics.  or, imho worse than total failure, is downstream
> flakiness induced by partial gate failures from said static zaps.

Damage to circuitry is not all "instant-or-never"; damaged junctions can
take their own time (sometimes zero) to degenerate from
damaged-but-perfectly-functional to occasional errors to persistent
failure.

There is no way to predict which chip(s) take total/partial/creeping
damage from ESD.

Insert spiffy .sig here:
Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary parts.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the
moments that take our breath away.


//me
*******************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this
email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses.
www.Hubbell.com - Hubbell Incorporated**

_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Lamar Owen
On Wednesday, June 15, 2011 09:12:44 AM Brunner, Brian T. wrote:
> Damage to circuitry is not all "instant-or-never"; damaged junctions can
> take their own time (sometimes zero) to degenerate from
> damaged-but-perfectly-functional to occasional errors to persistent
> failure.

The bullet-wound analogy is spot-on; I have a motherboard here that will sometimes boot without initializing the keyboard; also,k it will not successfully POST all the RAM (hard loacks during POST) but Memtest86 finds no memory problems.

It operates, but it's not in a critical role.  I'm fairly convinced it was careless handling three years ago that did it.

In my PC 'Fix it' class at a local community college, I stress static issues with my students.  This year, one is a retired highway patrolman, and he got the analogy very quickly.

As to carpeted anti-static tiles, we have them.  Most of our 30,000 square feet of raised floor is carpeted; only some vent tiles are non-carpeted, and they're perforated.  The carpet has conductive fibers interwoven, and static is pretty much a non-issue, until humidity gets below 20%.  Not a problem this time of year, for us.

At least we don't have zinc whisker problems; our tiles are either too old or of the wrong kind of construction to have the whiskers.

Dust isn't as bad of an issue as you might think, but stains are.  And I do the vacuuming of the data center spaces myself, with a dedicated vac with HEPA filtration.  Takes less than half an hour for the critical spaces, and gives me a good reason to inspect everything.

The dust off the subfloor (while it *was* sealed when built, it still has collected dust over the years) is a worse problem that off the carpet.  
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

m.roth
Lamar Owen wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 15, 2011 09:12:44 AM Brunner, Brian T. wrote:
>> Damage to circuitry is not all "instant-or-never"; damaged junctions can
>> take their own time (sometimes zero) to degenerate from
>> damaged-but-perfectly-functional to occasional errors to persistent
>> failure.
<snip>
> Dust isn't as bad of an issue as you might think, but stains are.  And I
> do the vacuuming of the data center spaces myself, with a dedicated vac
> with HEPA filtration.  Takes less than half an hour for the critical
> spaces, and gives me a good reason to inspect everything.
<snip>
Ever heard the old, old m'frame (I think) story, of the guy who needed to
do a backup, and the tape failed, and they had to go to an older one. The
next few days, he was trying to find out why, and discovered all of the
tapes on the bottom row of the tape (reel) rack were bad. Stayed late one
day, working on it... and watched as the cleaner came in, and ran the
floor cleaner right up to the rack....

         mark


_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [CentOS] OT: high static in server room

Kevin Thorpe
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 3:13 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Lamar Owen wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 15, 2011 09:12:44 AM Brunner, Brian T. wrote:
>>> Damage to circuitry is not all "instant-or-never"; damaged junctions can
>>> take their own time (sometimes zero) to degenerate from
>>> damaged-but-perfectly-functional to occasional errors to persistent
>>> failure.
> <snip>
>> Dust isn't as bad of an issue as you might think, but stains are.  And I
>> do the vacuuming of the data center spaces myself, with a dedicated vac
>> with HEPA filtration.  Takes less than half an hour for the critical
>> spaces, and gives me a good reason to inspect everything.
> <snip>
> Ever heard the old, old m'frame (I think) story, of the guy who needed to
> do a backup, and the tape failed, and they had to go to an older one. The
> next few days, he was trying to find out why, and discovered all of the
> tapes on the bottom row of the tape (reel) rack were bad. Stayed late one
> day, working on it... and watched as the cleaner came in, and ran the
> floor cleaner right up to the rack....

And the apocryphal mystery why the servers rebooted at 6:30 every evening.
Having said that we once had a cleaner unplug a router to plug a kettle in,
but that's rather more likely because it was tucked away in a corner than
unplugging a whole computer. Was back in '85 as well so your average
cleaner had no clue what a computer was.

On the other hand I managed to prank the cleaner in our computer lab. We
had 20 or so computers with touch screens and speech synth back in '85
when they were both magic. I left a program running one every one of them
so say 'thank you' when she finished cleaning the screen. We had the
cleanest screens ever.
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
12