Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

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Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Ingolf Steinbach-2
Hi,

I am currently attempting to install Kubuntu 18.04.1 on a HP Pavilion 15-cr0001ng notebook which came preinstalled with Windows 10 Home Edition. In preparation, I shrunk the C: drive to get some 400GB of free storage on the (single) HDD. I then booted the Kubuntu 18.04.1 DVD (via an external drive) downloaded from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/18.04/release/kubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso

Unfortunately, the only options the installer offers are to use the entire disk (which I definitively do not want) or to do some manual "juggling" (which I'd like to avoid), see 01_installation_type.png.

Both the "Installation type" and the "Prepare partitions" steps clearly show the Windows installation and also the free space intended for the Kubuntu installation (see also 02_prepare_partitions.png); yet, there is no option to install Kubuntu alongside the Windows installation (without having to resort to manual modification of partitions.

I also selected "Try Kubuntu" first, followed by an upgrade of packages via WiFi (hoping that maybe also the installer would be updated to a newer version). Without effect.

Is automatic installation alongside Windows really not supported? Did I miss something?

See attachments for the output of parted and efibootmgr.


Two additional questions:
  1. Is it possible to either install solely to the spare partition (without *installing* grub but booting grub from the DVD and from there starting the HDD based Kubuntu) or to remove grub later on (if I should decide to revert to a Windows-only notebook)?
  2. The live DVD did not detect the built-in WiFi (I had to use one connected via USB instead) which is a RealTek RTL8821CE [10ec:c821] (see attached lspci.txt). Is this expected?
Thanks in advance for your support.

Kind regards
Ingolf

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parted.txt (1K) Download Attachment
efibootmgr.txt (742 bytes) Download Attachment
lspci.txt (2K) Download Attachment
smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment
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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Cody Smith-2
I've run into this myself, the only reliable fix I've found is booting into windows are disabling fast startup from the power songs in the control panel and.
On Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 10:02 AM Ingolf Steinbach <[hidden email] wrote:
Hi,

I am currently attempting to install Kubuntu 18.04.1 on a HP Pavilion 15-cr0001ng notebook which came preinstalled with Windows 10 Home Edition. In preparation, I shrunk the C: drive to get some 400GB of free storage on the (single) HDD. I then booted the Kubuntu 18.04.1 DVD (via an external drive) downloaded from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/18.04/release/kubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso

Unfortunately, the only options the installer offers are to use the entire disk (which I definitively do not want) or to do some manual "juggling" (which I'd like to avoid), see 01_installation_type.png.

Both the "Installation type" and the "Prepare partitions" steps clearly show the Windows installation and also the free space intended for the Kubuntu installation (see also 02_prepare_partitions.png); yet, there is no option to install Kubuntu alongside the Windows installation (without having to resort to manual modification of partitions.

I also selected "Try Kubuntu" first, followed by an upgrade of packages via WiFi (hoping that maybe also the installer would be updated to a newer version). Without effect.

Is automatic installation alongside Windows really not supported? Did I miss something?

See attachments for the output of parted and efibootmgr.


Two additional questions:
  1. Is it possible to either install solely to the spare partition (without *installing* grub but booting grub from the DVD and from there starting the HDD based Kubuntu) or to remove grub later on (if I should decide to revert to a Windows-only notebook)?
  2. The live DVD did not detect the built-in WiFi (I had to use one connected via USB instead) which is a RealTek RTL8821CE [10ec:c821] (see attached lspci.txt). Is this expected?
Thanks in advance for your support.

Kind regards
Ingolf
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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

TuxMario DeTreb
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach-2
Hello

The manual option is dedicated to manage your specific installation. Have some trouble to use this option?
NB : I use manual option since several years without any problem

Happy new years : TuxMario

Le 05/01/2019 à 19:01, Ingolf Steinbach a écrit :
Hi,

I am currently attempting to install Kubuntu 18.04.1 on a HP Pavilion 15-cr0001ng notebook which came preinstalled with Windows 10 Home Edition. In preparation, I shrunk the C: drive to get some 400GB of free storage on the (single) HDD. I then booted the Kubuntu 18.04.1 DVD (via an external drive) downloaded from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/18.04/release/kubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso

Unfortunately, the only options the installer offers are to use the entire disk (which I definitively do not want) or to do some manual "juggling" (which I'd like to avoid), see 01_installation_type.png.

Both the "Installation type" and the "Prepare partitions" steps clearly show the Windows installation and also the free space intended for the Kubuntu installation (see also 02_prepare_partitions.png); yet, there is no option to install Kubuntu alongside the Windows installation (without having to resort to manual modification of partitions.

I also selected "Try Kubuntu" first, followed by an upgrade of packages via WiFi (hoping that maybe also the installer would be updated to a newer version). Without effect.

Is automatic installation alongside Windows really not supported? Did I miss something?

See attachments for the output of parted and efibootmgr.


Two additional questions:
  1. Is it possible to either install solely to the spare partition (without *installing* grub but booting grub from the DVD and from there starting the HDD based Kubuntu) or to remove grub later on (if I should decide to revert to a Windows-only notebook)?
  2. The live DVD did not detect the built-in WiFi (I had to use one connected via USB instead) which is a RealTek RTL8821CE [10ec:c821] (see attached lspci.txt). Is this expected?
Thanks in advance for your support.

Kind regards
Ingolf



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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

girardhenri@free.fr
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach-2

Why don't you use virtualbox ?

You don't need 400 Gb storage. I installed a ssd of 250 Gb for linux and kept w10. From the BIOS, activate your ssd and install ubuntu. but each time you might have to tell at boot which drive you want ?


Le 05/01/2019 à 19:01, Ingolf Steinbach a écrit :
Hi,

I am currently attempting to install Kubuntu 18.04.1 on a HP Pavilion 15-cr0001ng notebook which came preinstalled with Windows 10 Home Edition. In preparation, I shrunk the C: drive to get some 400GB of free storage on the (single) HDD. I then booted the Kubuntu 18.04.1 DVD (via an external drive) downloaded from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/18.04/release/kubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso

Unfortunately, the only options the installer offers are to use the entire disk (which I definitively do not want) or to do some manual "juggling" (which I'd like to avoid), see 01_installation_type.png.

Both the "Installation type" and the "Prepare partitions" steps clearly show the Windows installation and also the free space intended for the Kubuntu installation (see also 02_prepare_partitions.png); yet, there is no option to install Kubuntu alongside the Windows installation (without having to resort to manual modification of partitions.

I also selected "Try Kubuntu" first, followed by an upgrade of packages via WiFi (hoping that maybe also the installer would be updated to a newer version). Without effect.

Is automatic installation alongside Windows really not supported? Did I miss something?

See attachments for the output of parted and efibootmgr.


Two additional questions:
  1. Is it possible to either install solely to the spare partition (without *installing* grub but booting grub from the DVD and from there starting the HDD based Kubuntu) or to remove grub later on (if I should decide to revert to a Windows-only notebook)?
  2. The live DVD did not detect the built-in WiFi (I had to use one connected via USB instead) which is a RealTek RTL8821CE [10ec:c821] (see attached lspci.txt). Is this expected?
Thanks in advance for your support.

Kind regards
Ingolf


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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Ingolf Steinbach-2
In reply to this post by Cody Smith-2
Am Sa., 5. Jan. 2019 um 19:07 Uhr schrieb Cody Smith <[hidden email]>:
> I've run into this myself, the only reliable fix I've found is booting into windows are disabling fast startup from the power songs in the control panel and.

Cody, I forgot to say that I already did this: fast startup was
disabled. Did you indeed get the option to install alongside windows
with the installer on *current* Kubuntu 18.04.1 images?

I was a bit irritated as the installer reports 18.04 (without .1); and
from searching the web, I got the impression that the 18.04 installer
(for other flavors of Ubuntu) had exactly this limitation.

Kind regards
Ingolf

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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Ingolf Steinbach-2
In reply to this post by TuxMario DeTreb
Am Sa., 5. Jan. 2019 um 19:15 Uhr schrieb TuxMario DETREB
<[hidden email]>:
> The manual option is dedicated to manage your specific installation. Have some trouble to use this option?
> NB : I use manual option since several years without any problem

Salut TuxMario.

I am quite reluctant to use the manual option as I believe that one
can easily damage the Windows installation if one does not exactly
know what one is doing. The notebook came without Windows installation
DVD, so I'd definitively want to avoid corrupting the Windows
installation.

> Happy new years : TuxMario
Merci. Le meme à toi.

Kind regards
Ingolf

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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Cody Smith-2
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach-2
I did. Not sure what else to suggest, sadly

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 11:02 AM Ingolf Steinbach <[hidden email] wrote:
Am Sa., 5. Jan. 2019 um 19:07 Uhr schrieb Cody Smith <[hidden email]>:
> I've run into this myself, the only reliable fix I've found is booting into windows are disabling fast startup from the power songs in the control panel and.

Cody, I forgot to say that I already did this: fast startup was
disabled. Did you indeed get the option to install alongside windows
with the installer on *current* Kubuntu 18.04.1 images?

I was a bit irritated as the installer reports 18.04 (without .1); and
from searching the web, I got the impression that the 18.04 installer
(for other flavors of Ubuntu) had exactly this limitation.

Kind regards
Ingolf

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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Ingolf Steinbach-2
In reply to this post by girardhenri@free.fr
Am Sa., 5. Jan. 2019 um 19:18 Uhr schrieb girard henri <[hidden email]>:
> Why don't you use virtualbox ?
>
> You don't need 400 Gb storage. I installed a ssd of 250 Gb for linux and kept w10. From the BIOS, activate your ssd and install ubuntu. but each time you might have to tell at boot which drive you want ?

Salut Girard.

Well, it is not *my* notebook. I wanted to give another person the
opportunity to compare both OSes and then decide what to dump in favor
of the other. Running Linux in VBox would be kind of unfair.

Kind regards
Ingolf

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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

accessys
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach-2

I gave up on Windows years ago and haven't missed it. but in buying a
computur you "should" get a backup system on a disk or thumbdrive or some
such. no matter what system I had I would want that parachute in hand and
would try to get it from HP or MS or someplace to have it on hand.

when dual booting I have in the past always loaded linux first leaving a
space for windoze to be installed later.  when I had Linux (whatever
flavor and I do prefer Kubuntu) installed and working correctly and backed
up I would then install windows in the appropriate place.

things have gotten better but so far MS always seems to mess up the linux
no matter how I have done it so I always prefer a linux boot loader (GRUB
or you preference)
   you already have it but I have bought nothing but System 76 laptops in
many many years the company is solid as are the computers and I do not
worrk for them or have any financial interest in the company

Bob



On Sat, 5 Jan 2019, Ingolf Steinbach wrote:

> Am Sa., 5. Jan. 2019 um 19:15 Uhr schrieb TuxMario DETREB
> <[hidden email]>:
>> The manual option is dedicated to manage your specific installation. Have some trouble to use this option?
>> NB : I use manual option since several years without any problem
>
> Salut TuxMario.
>
> I am quite reluctant to use the manual option as I believe that one
> can easily damage the Windows installation if one does not exactly
> know what one is doing. The notebook came without Windows installation
> DVD, so I'd definitively want to avoid corrupting the Windows
> installation.
>
>> Happy new years : TuxMario
> Merci. Le meme à toi.
>
> Kind regards
> Ingolf
>
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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

girardhenri@free.fr
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach-2
Don't worry about the dvd w10, you can get it on microsoft and
installing it will find your hdd and account for it.

Le 05/01/2019 à 20:04, Ingolf Steinbach a écrit :

> Am Sa., 5. Jan. 2019 um 19:15 Uhr schrieb TuxMario DETREB
> <[hidden email]>:
>> The manual option is dedicated to manage your specific installation. Have some trouble to use this option?
>> NB : I use manual option since several years without any problem
> Salut TuxMario.
>
> I am quite reluctant to use the manual option as I believe that one
> can easily damage the Windows installation if one does not exactly
> know what one is doing. The notebook came without Windows installation
> DVD, so I'd definitively want to avoid corrupting the Windows
> installation.
>
>> Happy new years : TuxMario
> Merci. Le meme à toi.
>
> Kind regards
> Ingolf
>

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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

girardhenri@free.fr
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach-2
I don't agree with you... Specially to give a try... w10 is quicker on
virtualbox than in real. But you know, ubuntu is much better thanw10...
I mean linux...

Kind regards

Henri

Le 05/01/2019 à 20:07, Ingolf Steinbach a écrit :

> Am Sa., 5. Jan. 2019 um 19:18 Uhr schrieb girard henri <[hidden email]>:
>> Why don't you use virtualbox ?
>>
>> You don't need 400 Gb storage. I installed a ssd of 250 Gb for linux and kept w10. From the BIOS, activate your ssd and install ubuntu. but each time you might have to tell at boot which drive you want ?
> Salut Girard.
>
> Well, it is not *my* notebook. I wanted to give another person the
> opportunity to compare both OSes and then decide what to dump in favor
> of the other. Running Linux in VBox would be kind of unfair.
>
> Kind regards
> Ingolf
>

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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Robert Charbonneau
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach-2
From what I understand about Windows 10, if it is installed in UEFI mode then you need a second HDD to install to.  UEFI OS installations have to live on their own disk.  If you're in legacy boot mode you'll have other options.

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 1:02 PM Ingolf Steinbach <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I am currently attempting to install Kubuntu 18.04.1 on a HP Pavilion 15-cr0001ng notebook which came preinstalled with Windows 10 Home Edition. In preparation, I shrunk the C: drive to get some 400GB of free storage on the (single) HDD. I then booted the Kubuntu 18.04.1 DVD (via an external drive) downloaded from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/18.04/release/kubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso

Unfortunately, the only options the installer offers are to use the entire disk (which I definitively do not want) or to do some manual "juggling" (which I'd like to avoid), see 01_installation_type.png.

Both the "Installation type" and the "Prepare partitions" steps clearly show the Windows installation and also the free space intended for the Kubuntu installation (see also 02_prepare_partitions.png); yet, there is no option to install Kubuntu alongside the Windows installation (without having to resort to manual modification of partitions.

I also selected "Try Kubuntu" first, followed by an upgrade of packages via WiFi (hoping that maybe also the installer would be updated to a newer version). Without effect.

Is automatic installation alongside Windows really not supported? Did I miss something?

See attachments for the output of parted and efibootmgr.


Two additional questions:
  1. Is it possible to either install solely to the spare partition (without *installing* grub but booting grub from the DVD and from there starting the HDD based Kubuntu) or to remove grub later on (if I should decide to revert to a Windows-only notebook)?
  2. The live DVD did not detect the built-in WiFi (I had to use one connected via USB instead) which is a RealTek RTL8821CE [10ec:c821] (see attached lspci.txt). Is this expected?
Thanks in advance for your support.

Kind regards
Ingolf
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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Bmarsh
I agree with this.  I bought a new laptop about 18 months ago and Windows was running in UEFI mode.  In order to install or run Linux, I had to switch to AHCI mode and switch back to run Windows.  I finally gave up,  wiped the Windows install, and put Windows under VirtualBox.  Works very well.




From: Robert Charbonneau <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition
Date: 1/6/19 5:38 AM
To: Kubuntu user technical support <[hidden email]>


From what I understand about Windows 10, if it is installed in UEFI mode then you need a second HDD to install to.  UEFI OS installations have to live on their own disk.  If you're in legacy boot mode you'll have other options.

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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

girardhenri@free.fr

In my opinions it's the best result I was surprisingly amazed to see how quick it it !

Le 06/01/2019 à 17:17, Bmarsh a écrit :
I agree with this.  I bought a new laptop about 18 months ago and Windows was running in UEFI mode.  In order to install or run Linux, I had to switch to AHCI mode and switch back to run Windows.  I finally gave up,  wiped the Windows install, and put Windows under VirtualBox.  Works very well.




From: Robert Charbonneau <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition
Date: 1/6/19 5:38 AM
To: Kubuntu user technical support <[hidden email]>


From what I understand about Windows 10, if it is installed in UEFI mode then you need a second HDD to install to.  UEFI OS installations have to live on their own disk.  If you're in legacy boot mode you'll have other options.


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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Christopher Patti
In reply to this post by Robert Charbonneau
It may be easier to use a separate HD, but I have Linux installed on my UEFI Alienware 17 R5 along side Windows 10 on my internal SSD and it works great.

You have to create a special boot partition, and it was in fact kind of a pain, but it's possible once you understand it.

Reading the OPs original question though, given that what they want is to give their friend a chance to see Linux in operation alongside Windows without doing anything destructive, I'd agree with others that the best choice here is simply to install VirtualBox into windows 10 and get Linux running that way.


On Sun, Jan 6, 2019, at 5:36 AM, Robert Charbonneau wrote:
From what I understand about Windows 10, if it is installed in UEFI mode then you need a second HDD to install to.  UEFI OS installations have to live on their own disk.  If you're in legacy boot mode you'll have other options.

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 1:02 PM Ingolf Steinbach <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I am currently attempting to install Kubuntu 18.04.1 on a HP Pavilion 15-cr0001ng notebook which came preinstalled with Windows 10 Home Edition. In preparation, I shrunk the C: drive to get some 400GB of free storage on the (single) HDD. I then booted the Kubuntu 18.04.1 DVD (via an external drive) downloaded from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/18.04/release/kubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso

Unfortunately, the only options the installer offers are to use the entire disk (which I definitively do not want) or to do some manual "juggling" (which I'd like to avoid), see 01_installation_type.png.

Both the "Installation type" and the "Prepare partitions" steps clearly show the Windows installation and also the free space intended for the Kubuntu installation (see also 02_prepare_partitions.png); yet, there is no option to install Kubuntu alongside the Windows installation (without having to resort to manual modification of partitions.

I also selected "Try Kubuntu" first, followed by an upgrade of packages via WiFi (hoping that maybe also the installer would be updated to a newer version). Without effect.

Is automatic installation alongside Windows really not supported? Did I miss something?

See attachments for the output of parted and efibootmgr.


Two additional questions:
  1. Is it possible to either install solely to the spare partition (without *installing* grub but booting grub from the DVD and from there starting the HDD based Kubuntu) or to remove grub later on (if I should decide to revert to a Windows-only notebook)?
  2. The live DVD did not detect the built-in WiFi (I had to use one connected via USB instead) which is a RealTek RTL8821CE [10ec:c821] (see attached lspci.txt). Is this expected?
Thanks in advance for your support.

Kind regards
Ingolf
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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Ingolf Steinbach-2
Hi Christopher.

Am So., 6. Jan. 2019 um 22:35 Uhr schrieb Christopher Patti <[hidden email]>:
> It may be easier to use a separate HD, but I have Linux installed on my UEFI Alienware 17 R5 along side Windows 10 on my internal SSD and it works great.
>
> You have to create a special boot partition, and it was in fact kind of a pain, but it's possible once you understand it.

Do you have a pointer to some documentation describing that procedure?

> Reading the OPs original question though, given that what they want is to give their friend a chance to see Linux in operation alongside Windows without doing anything destructive, I'd agree with others that the best choice here is simply to install VirtualBox into windows 10 and get Linux running that way.

The owner of the notebook is already familier with Linux resp Kubuntu (as a user). My intention was to ensure that specific notebook model is supported well enough for everyday life. That would include questions like
  • Does the WiFi work w/o problems? (I ran into one with the live DVD, see the original post)
  • Does suspend/resume show any surprises?
  • How quickly does the battery drain compared to similar usage under Windows?
Unfortunately, these are all aspects which cannot be evaluated in a VM.

Kind regards
Ingolf

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Re: Installation alongside Windows 10 Home Edition

Christopher Patti
Hi Ingolf;

Actually, I don't. The only bit of advice I'd offer is:

* Backup the Windows partition. Backup the entire partition. You can do this for free with Paragon Partiton Manager among others:


This will allow you to create rescue media and back up the Windows partition so you can be sure you can get back to working when you need to.

* Be SURE to boot the USB stick you're using for installation in UEFI *NOT* Legacy mode. This really burned me as I ended up installing Linux a couple of times and having it write MBRs to various places that my computer then totally ignored :)

* You'll need to create an EFI boot partition

Sorry I can't remember all the details. It can be small is all I remember :\

In short - if your friend's data isn't 1000% backed up and you can't be very sure you can get back to a known good state, you shouldn't touch the machine. I got dual booting on the same disk working, but I've got many years of tech experience (thoughy not Linux experience) and found my way through encountering problems and Googling solutions.

Not amazing but there we are.

Good luck!
-Chris


On Thu, Jan 10, 2019, at 10:07 AM, Ingolf Steinbach wrote:
Hi Christopher.

Am So., 6. Jan. 2019 um 22:35 Uhr schrieb Christopher Patti <[hidden email]>:
> It may be easier to use a separate HD, but I have Linux installed on my UEFI Alienware 17 R5 along side Windows 10 on my internal SSD and it works great.
>
> You have to create a special boot partition, and it was in fact kind of a pain, but it's possible once you understand it.

Do you have a pointer to some documentation describing that procedure?

> Reading the OPs original question though, given that what they want is to give their friend a chance to see Linux in operation alongside Windows without doing anything destructive, I'd agree with others that the best choice here is simply to install VirtualBox into windows 10 and get Linux running that way.

The owner of the notebook is already familier with Linux resp Kubuntu (as a user). My intention was to ensure that specific notebook model is supported well enough for everyday life. That would include questions like
  • Does the WiFi work w/o problems? (I ran into one with the live DVD, see the original post)
  • Does suspend/resume show any surprises?
  • How quickly does the battery drain compared to similar usage under Windows?

Unfortunately, these are all aspects which cannot be evaluated in a VM.

Kind regards
Ingolf
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