cups sucks!!!

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cups sucks!!!

François Patte
Bonjour.

I try to configure a printer on my local network but all attemps fail.

I have a printer attached to one computer on an usb port and I want to
use it with other computers on my local network.

I opened firefox on one computer and miracle: the printer attached to
the other computer is discovered and cups admin interface asks me if I
want to add this printer. Nice: the job is easy!! *But* this does not
work at all!!

Sending a test page returns that the printer is not responding.

I tried to cofigure the printer using the "Add printer" way and chose
ipp. According to the given syntax, I wrote: ipp://name-of-server/ipp
but this does not work: sending a test page returns that the printer is
misconfigured or no longer exists...

I replaced the name of the server by its IP address... same result.

I tried: ipp://name-of-server:631/printers/name-of-printer-on-server. It
does not work, the message is now: Filter failed.

What fiter? I don't know as cups logs no longer exist since systemd...

Does somebody know a solution?

Thank you.


--
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte


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Re: cups sucks!!!

Joe Zeff
On 02/25/2018 10:42 AM, François Patte wrote:
> Does somebody know a solution?

Have you tried going into cups on the computer the printer's attached to
and sharing it?
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Re: cups sucks!!!

Dirk Gottschalk
In reply to this post by François Patte
Hello.

Did you open up the ipp port in your firewall configuration?

Regards,
Dirk


Am Sonntag, den 25.02.2018, 19:42 +0100 schrieb François Patte:

> Bonjour.
>
> I try to configure a printer on my local network but all attemps
> fail.
>
> I have a printer attached to one computer on an usb port and I want
> to
> use it with other computers on my local network.
>
> I opened firefox on one computer and miracle: the printer attached to
> the other computer is discovered and cups admin interface asks me if
> I
> want to add this printer. Nice: the job is easy!! *But* this does not
> work at all!!
>
> Sending a test page returns that the printer is not responding.
>
> I tried to cofigure the printer using the "Add printer" way and chose
> ipp. According to the given syntax, I wrote: ipp://name-of-server/ipp
> but this does not work: sending a test page returns that the printer
> is
> misconfigured or no longer exists...
>
> I replaced the name of the server by its IP address... same result.
>
> I tried: ipp://name-of-server:631/printers/name-of-printer-on-server.
> It
> does not work, the message is now: Filter failed.
>
> What fiter? I don't know as cups logs no longer exist since
> systemd...
>
> Does somebody know a solution?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list -- [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [hidden email]
--
Dirk Gottschalk
Paulusstrasse 6-8
52064 Aachen
Tel.: +49 1573 1152350
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Re: cups sucks!!!

Samuel Sieb
In reply to this post by François Patte
On 02/25/2018 10:42 AM, François Patte wrote:
> I tried: ipp://name-of-server:631/printers/name-of-printer-on-server. It
> does not work, the message is now: Filter failed.
>
> What fiter? I don't know as cups logs no longer exist since systemd...

The cups logs go to the journal like everything else.  Try "journalctl
-b -u cups".
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Re: cups sucks!!!

François Patte
In reply to this post by Dirk Gottschalk
Le 25/02/2018 à 20:00, Dirk Gottschalk a écrit :
> Hello.
>
> Did you open up the ipp port in your firewall configuration?

First thing I have done!

>
> Regards,
> Dirk
>
>
> Am Sonntag, den 25.02.2018, 19:42 +0100 schrieb François Patte:
>> Bonjour.
>>
>> I try to configure a printer on my local network but all attemps
>> fail.
>>
>> I have a printer attached to one computer on an usb port and I want
>> to
>> use it with other computers on my local network.
>>
>> I opened firefox on one computer and miracle: the printer attached to
>> the other computer is discovered and cups admin interface asks me if
>> I
>> want to add this printer. Nice: the job is easy!! *But* this does not
>> work at all!!
>>
>> Sending a test page returns that the printer is not responding.
>>
>> I tried to cofigure the printer using the "Add printer" way and chose
>> ipp. According to the given syntax, I wrote: ipp://name-of-server/ipp
>> but this does not work: sending a test page returns that the printer
>> is
>> misconfigured or no longer exists...
>>
>> I replaced the name of the server by its IP address... same result.
>>
>> I tried: ipp://name-of-server:631/printers/name-of-printer-on-server.
>> It
>> does not work, the message is now: Filter failed.
>>
>> What fiter? I don't know as cups logs no longer exist since
>> systemd...
>>
>> Does somebody know a solution?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> users mailing list -- [hidden email]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> users mailing list -- [hidden email]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to [hidden email]

--
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte


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Re: cups sucks!!!

François Patte
In reply to this post by Joe Zeff
Le 25/02/2018 à 19:58, Joe Zeff a écrit :
> On 02/25/2018 10:42 AM, François Patte wrote:
>> Does somebody know a solution?
>
> Have you tried going into cups on the computer the printer's attached to
> and sharing it?

Of course! If not it cannot be seen on the network!

--
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte


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Re: cups sucks!!!

Gordon Messmer-2
In reply to this post by François Patte
On 02/25/2018 10:42 AM, François Patte wrote:
> I opened firefox on one computer and miracle: the printer attached to
> the other computer is discovered and cups admin interface asks me if I
> want to add this printer. Nice: the job is easy!!*But*  this does not
> work at all!!


If I recall correctly, discovery is a matter of multicast DNS
announcement.  Since the source announces the printer, firewall rules
don't need to be adjusted to allow that.  However, you do need to adjust
firewall rules to allow incoming IPP connections. Have you done that?
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Re: cups sucks!!!

François Patte
Le 26/02/2018 à 05:35, Gordon Messmer a écrit :

> On 02/25/2018 10:42 AM, François Patte wrote:
>> I opened firefox on one computer and miracle: the printer attached to
>> the other computer is discovered and cups admin interface asks me if I
>> want to add this printer. Nice: the job is easy!!*But*  this does not
>> work at all!!
>
>
> If I recall correctly, discovery is a matter of multicast DNS
> announcement.  Since the source announces the printer, firewall rules
> don't need to be adjusted to allow that.  However, you do need to adjust
> firewall rules to allow incoming IPP connections. Have you done that?
iptables -L

Chain INPUT

ACCEPT     tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere             tcp dpt:ipp
ACCEPT     tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere             tcp spt:ipp
ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             anywhere             udp dpt:ipp
ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             anywhere             udp spt:ipp

Chain OUTPUT

ACCEPT     tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere             tcp spt:ipp
ACCEPT     tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere             tcp dpt:ipp
ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             anywhere             udp spt:ipp
ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             anywhere             udp dpt:ipp

--
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte


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Re: cups sucks!!!

François Patte
In reply to this post by Samuel Sieb
Le 25/02/2018 à 21:23, Samuel Sieb a écrit :
> On 02/25/2018 10:42 AM, François Patte wrote:
>> I tried: ipp://name-of-server:631/printers/name-of-printer-on-server. It
>> does not work, the message is now: Filter failed.
>>
>> What fiter? I don't know as cups logs no longer exist since systemd...
>
> The cups logs go to the journal like everything else.  Try "journalctl
> -b -u cups".

Yes! Of course!

Using the cups web interface, there are 2 buttons: giving access to
errors and access logs.

There is absolutely nothing in them... Some clever guys thought that
these usefull debugging information were too easy to get, so there
imagined to put the logs in a big journal!

--
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte


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Re: cups sucks!!!

Dirk Gottschalk
In reply to this post by François Patte
Am Sonntag, den 25.02.2018, 22:43 +0100 schrieb François Patte:
> Le 25/02/2018 à 20:00, Dirk Gottschalk a écrit :
> > Hello.
> >
> > Did you open up the ipp port in your firewall configuration?
>
> First thing I have done!

That's good. This is often forgotten. I caught myself in situations
where I wondered why something doesn't work. Two cups of coffie later
comes the solution: "You idiot forgot the Firewall!"

That's the reason I mentionded it. ;-)

Regards,
Dirk

PS: Did you turn around the situation and tried the printer on another
computer, just to be sure?

--
Dirk Gottschalk
Paulusstrasse 6-8
52064 Aachen
Tel.: +49 1573 1152350
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Re: cups sucks!!!

Dr J Austin-2
In reply to this post by François Patte
On Mon, 2018-02-26 at 09:05 +0100, François Patte wrote:

> Le 26/02/2018 à 05:35, Gordon Messmer a écrit :
> > On 02/25/2018 10:42 AM, François Patte wrote:
> > > I opened firefox on one computer and miracle: the printer attached to
> > > the other computer is discovered and cups admin interface asks me if I
> > > want to add this printer. Nice: the job is easy!!*But*  this does not
> > > work at all!!
> >
> >
> > If I recall correctly, discovery is a matter of multicast DNS
> > announcement.  Since the source announces the printer, firewall rules
> > don't need to be adjusted to allow that.  However, you do need to adjust
> > firewall rules to allow incoming IPP connections. Have you done that?
>
> iptables -L
>
> Chain INPUT
>
> ACCEPT     tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere             tcp dpt:ipp
> ACCEPT     tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere             tcp spt:ipp
> ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             anywhere             udp dpt:ipp
> ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             anywhere             udp spt:ipp
>
> Chain OUTPUT
>
> ACCEPT     tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere             tcp spt:ipp
> ACCEPT     tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere             tcp dpt:ipp
> ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             anywhere             udp spt:ipp
> ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             anywhere             udp dpt:ipp
>
> _______________________________________________
>

A working Centos 7.4 server but maybe ...

systemctl status cups-browsed.service  ???????

/etc/cups/cups-browsed.conf

# Which protocols will we use to discover printers on the network?
# Can use DNSSD and/or CUPS, or 'none' for neither.
BrowseRemoteProtocols dnssd cups

# Which protocols will we use to broadcast shared local printers to the network?
# Can use DNSSD and/or CUPS, or 'none' for neither.
# Only CUPS is actually supported, as DNSSD is done by CUPS itself (we ignore
# DNSSD in this directive).
# BrowseLocalProtocols none            --------->>>>>>>> Default ?????????
BrowseLocalProtocols cups

# Settings of this directive apply to both BrowseRemoteProtocols and
# BrowseLocalProtocols.
# Can use DNSSD and/or CUPS, or 'none' for neither.
# BrowseProtocols none
BrowseProtocols dnssd cups
//-----------------------------------------
Also
#Multicast DNS Port mdns/5353 (for CUPS)
iptables -A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp -d $DEST --dport 5353 -s $SOURCE -j ACCEPT
iptables -A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m udp -p udp -d $DEST --dport 5353 -s $SOURCE -j ACCEPT

#CUPS port ipp/631
iptables -A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp -d $DEST --dport 631 -s $SOURCE -j ACCEPT
iptables -A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m udp -p udp -d $DEST --dport 631 -s $SOURCE -j ACCEPT

John

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Re: cups sucks!!!

Gordon Messmer-2
In reply to this post by François Patte
Edit /etc/cups/cupsd.conf.  Change "Listen localhost:631" to "Listen *:631"
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Re: cups sucks!!! Epilogue

François Patte
In reply to this post by François Patte
Le 25/02/2018 à 19:42, François Patte a écrit :

> Bonjour.
>
> I try to configure a printer on my local network but all attemps fail.
>
> I have a printer attached to one computer on an usb port and I want to
> use it with other computers on my local network.
>
> I opened firefox on one computer and miracle: the printer attached to
> the other computer is discovered and cups admin interface asks me if I
> want to add this printer. Nice: the job is easy!! *But* this does not
> work at all!!
>
> Sending a test page returns that the printer is not responding.
>
> I tried to cofigure the printer using the "Add printer" way and chose
> ipp. According to the given syntax, I wrote: ipp://name-of-server/ipp
> but this does not work: sending a test page returns that the printer is
> misconfigured or no longer exists...
>
> I replaced the name of the server by its IP address... same result.
>
> I tried: ipp://name-of-server:631/printers/name-of-printer-on-server. It
> does not work, the message is now: Filter failed.
>
> What fiter? I don't know as cups logs no longer exist since systemd...
>
> Does somebody know a solution?
After googleling a lot I could solve my problem but in a very strange way!

First I found some people talking about the impossibility to use the
same driver on the server (the computer to which the printer is plugged)
and the other computers on the LAN, them claimed that the driver to use
on the clients must be the "raw" driver. So I tried to modify the
configuration on a client, changing the driver to raw, but cups refuses
at the end to modify the config and I had to delete the printer on the
client and to re-add the printer from scratch using the raw driver and
cups accepted this way of doing.

But printing a test page failed. "Filter failed" was the error!
journalctl gives useless information, just a joke (maybe): " Job stopped
due to filter errors; please consult the error_log file for details."
There is no more error_log file....

At last I tried to use the "automatic way": ask cups to find the
printers on the LAN and add the computer. Using this way, I chose the
raw driver (cups accepted this) but the configuration failed one more
time: "the printer is misconfigured or no longer exists".

So, I asked to modify this configuration, replacing the dnssd address by
an ipp one and I did not change the driver in this modification and,
this time, cups accepted the modification and at last the printer worked!

cups really sucks!


--
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte


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Re: cups sucks!!! Epilogue

David A. De Graaf
On 02/27/18 17:04, François Patte wrote:
Le 25/02/2018 à 19:42, François Patte a écrit :
Bonjour.

I try to configure a printer on my local network but all attemps fail.

I have a printer attached to one computer on an usb port and I want to
use it with other computers on my local network.

I opened firefox on one computer and miracle: the printer attached to
the other computer is discovered and cups admin interface asks me if I
want to add this printer. Nice: the job is easy!! *But* this does not
work at all!!

Sending a test page returns that the printer is not responding.

I tried to cofigure the printer using the "Add printer" way and chose
ipp. According to the given syntax, I wrote: ipp://name-of-server/ipp
but this does not work: sending a test page returns that the printer is
misconfigured or no longer exists...

I replaced the name of the server by its IP address... same result.

I tried: ipp://name-of-server:631/printers/name-of-printer-on-server. It
does not work, the message is now: Filter failed.

What fiter? I don't know as cups logs no longer exist since systemd...

Does somebody know a solution?
After googleling a lot I could solve my problem but in a very strange way!

First I found some people talking about the impossibility to use the
same driver on the server (the computer to which the printer is plugged)
and the other computers on the LAN, them claimed that the driver to use
on the clients must be the "raw" driver. So I tried to modify the
configuration on a client, changing the driver to raw, but cups refuses
at the end to modify the config and I had to delete the printer on the
client and to re-add the printer from scratch using the raw driver and
cups accepted this way of doing.

But printing a test page failed. "Filter failed" was the error!
journalctl gives useless information, just a joke (maybe): " Job stopped
due to filter errors; please consult the error_log file for details."
There is no more error_log file....

At last I tried to use the "automatic way": ask cups to find the
printers on the LAN and add the computer. Using this way, I chose the
raw driver (cups accepted this) but the configuration failed one more
time: "the printer is misconfigured or no longer exists".

So, I asked to modify this configuration, replacing the dnssd address by
an ipp one and I did not change the driver in this modification and,
this time, cups accepted the modification and at last the printer worked!

cups really sucks!

The cups system in Fedora 27 has taken a giant step backward from prior versions in that browsing no longer works automatically.  In F26, if the cups-browsed service was enabled and started, all the printers on the LAN would be discovered and be available for use - automatically.
In F27 this no longer works.  But there is a workaround.

I must now edit /etc/cups/cups-browsed.conf on each and every client machine to add these lines:
     BrowsePoll datium
     BrowsePoll datair
     LocalQueueNamingRemoteCUPS RemoteName

where datium and datair are _my_ servers with connected printers.  Note that Fully Qualified Names, such as datium.datix.lan, are NOT acceptable.  With only two physical printers and a handful of client machines on my LAN, this is marginally tolerable;  with a much larger LAN, it isn't.

I've complained in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1518415 and in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1525937.
Apparently the "upstream" developers have a much different view than me of why Linux printing has traditionally been so successful and reliable and are hell-bent on "fixing" it.
-- 
	David A. De Graaf    DATIX, Inc.    Hendersonville, NC
	[hidden email]         www.datix.us

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Re: cups sucks!!! Epilogue

Stephen Morris
On 3/3/18 9:01 am, David A. De Graaf wrote:

> On 02/27/18 17:04, François Patte wrote:
>> Le 25/02/2018 à 19:42, François Patte a écrit :
>>> Bonjour.
>>>
>>> I try to configure a printer on my local network but all attemps fail.
>>>
>>> I have a printer attached to one computer on an usb port and I want to
>>> use it with other computers on my local network.
>>>
>>> I opened firefox on one computer and miracle: the printer attached to
>>> the other computer is discovered and cups admin interface asks me if I
>>> want to add this printer. Nice: the job is easy!! *But* this does not
>>> work at all!!
>>>
>>> Sending a test page returns that the printer is not responding.
>>>
>>> I tried to cofigure the printer using the "Add printer" way and chose
>>> ipp. According to the given syntax, I wrote: ipp://name-of-server/ipp
>>> but this does not work: sending a test page returns that the printer is
>>> misconfigured or no longer exists...
>>>
>>> I replaced the name of the server by its IP address... same result.
>>>
>>> I tried: ipp://name-of-server:631/printers/name-of-printer-on-server. It
>>> does not work, the message is now: Filter failed.
>>>
>>> What fiter? I don't know as cups logs no longer exist since systemd...
>>>
>>> Does somebody know a solution?
>> After googleling a lot I could solve my problem but in a very strange way!
>>
>> First I found some people talking about the impossibility to use the
>> same driver on the server (the computer to which the printer is plugged)
>> and the other computers on the LAN, them claimed that the driver to use
>> on the clients must be the "raw" driver. So I tried to modify the
>> configuration on a client, changing the driver to raw, but cups refuses
>> at the end to modify the config and I had to delete the printer on the
>> client and to re-add the printer from scratch using the raw driver and
>> cups accepted this way of doing.
>>
>> But printing a test page failed. "Filter failed" was the error!
>> journalctl gives useless information, just a joke (maybe): " Job stopped
>> due to filter errors; please consult the error_log file for details."
>> There is no more error_log file....
>>
>> At last I tried to use the "automatic way": ask cups to find the
>> printers on the LAN and add the computer. Using this way, I chose the
>> raw driver (cups accepted this) but the configuration failed one more
>> time: "the printer is misconfigured or no longer exists".
>>
>> So, I asked to modify this configuration, replacing the dnssd address by
>> an ipp one and I did not change the driver in this modification and,
>> this time, cups accepted the modification and at last the printer worked!
>>
>> cups really sucks!
>>
> The cups system in Fedora 27 has taken a giant step backward from
> prior versions in that browsing no longer works automatically.  In
> F26, if the cups-browsed service was enabled and started, all the
> printers on the LAN would be discovered and be available for use -
> automatically.

Hi David,

     I'm a little confused by what you mean here. In all versions of
cups, including F27, when you add a printer to cups, if the network
printer is turned on cups can automatically find it if it has support
for the printer, then when that printer is selected and the driver
selected, the printer is added to the printer list. If cups-browsed is
active then another entry is automatically added. In my case, with the
Epson printer (Expression ET 3700) I have cups finds two entries
provided from having installed the Epson supplied driver (cups doesn't
have native support), one using lpd and the other using dnssd. The entry
that gets auto added if cups-browsed is active uses ipps and is
specified as driverless, hence when selecting paper types it doesn't
know anything about Epson specific paper.


regards,

Steve


> In F27 this no longer works.  But there is a workaround.
>
> I must now edit /etc/cups/cups-browsed.conf on each and every client
> machine to add these lines:
>      BrowsePoll datium
>      BrowsePoll datair
>      LocalQueueNamingRemoteCUPS RemoteName
>
> where datium and datair are _my_ servers with connected printers. Note
> that Fully Qualified Names, such as datium.datix.lan, are NOT
> acceptable.  With only two physical printers and a handful of client
> machines on my LAN, this is marginally tolerable;  with a much larger
> LAN, it isn't.
>
> I've complained in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1518415 
> and in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1525937.
> Apparently the "upstream" developers have a much different view than
> me of why Linux printing has traditionally been so successful and
> reliable and are hell-bent on "fixing" it.
> --
> David A. De Graaf    DATIX, Inc.    Hendersonville, NC
> [hidden email]          www.datix.us
>
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Re: cups sucks!!! Epilogue

David A. De Graaf
On 03/03/18 20:20, Stephen Morris wrote:

> On 3/3/18 9:01 am, David A. De Graaf wrote:
>>
>> The cups system in Fedora 27 has taken a giant step backward from
>> prior versions in that browsing no longer works automatically.  In
>> F26, if the cups-browsed service was enabled and started, all the
>> printers on the LAN would be discovered and be available for use -
>> automatically.
>
> Hi David,
>
>     I'm a little confused by what you mean here. In all versions of
> cups, including F27, when you add a printer to cups, if the network
> printer is turned on cups can automatically find it if it has support
> for the printer, then when that printer is selected and the driver
> selected, the printer is added to the printer list.
The term "network printer" has (at least) two meanings.  For you, I
suspect, it means a printer that is directly accessible on the LAN with
its own IP.  It has enough internal memory to store some arbitrary
number of jobs enqueued to be printed when the printer manages to get to
them.  Every computer on the LAN can send jobs directly to the printer
with the expectation that interfering traffic will somehow be resolved. 
In addition each computer must be trained to know the idiosyncrasies of
that computer in the form of a "driver" designed specifically for that
printer.  Jobs must be prepared at the sending computer to be agreeable
to that specific printer's needs.  This is the Microsoft way.

For me, a UNIX traditionalist, a "network printer" is available to any
computer on the LAN, but ONLY through the intervention of the server
that controls it.  This includes printers that are, in fact, wired to
the server via USB, etc., as well as those with direct (but secret) IP
access.  The server, usually with tons of memory to spare, can easily
accept jobs simultaneously from many senders and queue them.  It also
can analyze the file content sent, and filter it appropriately.  Only
the server computer needs to know the details of how to actually prepare
the job for successful printing; the clients simply send print jobs to
the server and let it figure out the details.  This is the *NIX way.

It is the second configuration that is getting short shrift in the
latest cups development.  It seems perfectly obvious that when a server
"advertises" a printer's services, that each and every client should see
that service queue automatically.  That's the very essence of the job
that cups-browsed is created to do.  And it is what the newest version
fails utterly to do, unless the config file is edited as I described. 
The F26 version worked perfectly, exactly as I expected, so it is possible.

One of my two printers is a bit rare and exotic.  It is a Brother
HL-L8250CDN color laser printer, and is totally unknown to Fedora (and
to Windows).  Fortunately, Brother has prepared installable .rpm files
with the necessary drivers that I have downloaded and installed on the
server computer.  They work perfectly.  But, considering all that
trouble, why in the name of God, would I want to repeat that effort for
each and every client computer that might want to use that printer? 
That's just insane.  But that's the Microsoft way.

> If cups-browsed is active then another entry is automatically added.
> In my case, with the Epson printer (Expression ET 3700) I have cups
> finds two entries provided from having installed the Epson supplied
> driver (cups doesn't have native support), one using lpd and the other
> using dnssd. The entry that gets auto added if cups-browsed is active
> uses ipps and is specified as driverless, hence when selecting paper
> types it doesn't know anything about Epson specific paper.
>
>
> regards,
>
> Steve
>
>
>> In F27 this no longer works.  But there is a workaround.
>>
>> I must now edit /etc/cups/cups-browsed.conf on each and every client
>> machine to add these lines:
>>      BrowsePoll datium
>>      BrowsePoll datair
>>      LocalQueueNamingRemoteCUPS RemoteName
>>
>> where datium and datair are _my_ servers with connected printers.
>> Note that Fully Qualified Names, such as datium.datix.lan, are NOT
>> acceptable.  With only two physical printers and a handful of client
>> machines on my LAN, this is marginally tolerable;  with a much larger
>> LAN, it isn't.
>>
>> I've complained in
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1518415 and in
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1525937.
>> Apparently the "upstream" developers have a much different view than
>> me of why Linux printing has traditionally been so successful and
>> reliable and are hell-bent on "fixing" it.

--
        David A. De Graaf    DATIX, Inc.    Hendersonville, NC
        [hidden email]         www.datix.us
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Re: cups sucks!!! Epilogue

Stephen Morris
On 6/3/18 5:24 am, David A. De Graaf wrote:

> On 03/03/18 20:20, Stephen Morris wrote:
>> On 3/3/18 9:01 am, David A. De Graaf wrote:
>>>
>>> The cups system in Fedora 27 has taken a giant step backward from
>>> prior versions in that browsing no longer works automatically.  In
>>> F26, if the cups-browsed service was enabled and started, all the
>>> printers on the LAN would be discovered and be available for use -
>>> automatically.
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>>     I'm a little confused by what you mean here. In all versions of
>> cups, including F27, when you add a printer to cups, if the network
>> printer is turned on cups can automatically find it if it has support
>> for the printer, then when that printer is selected and the driver
>> selected, the printer is added to the printer list.
> The term "network printer" has (at least) two meanings.  For you, I
> suspect, it means a printer that is directly accessible on the LAN
> with its own IP.  It has enough internal memory to store some
> arbitrary number of jobs enqueued to be printed when the printer
> manages to get to them.  Every computer on the LAN can send jobs
> directly to the printer with the expectation that interfering traffic
> will somehow be resolved.  In addition each computer must be trained
> to know the idiosyncrasies of that computer in the form of a "driver"
> designed specifically for that printer.  Jobs must be prepared at the
> sending computer to be agreeable to that specific printer's needs. 
> This is the Microsoft way.
>
> For me, a UNIX traditionalist, a "network printer" is available to any
> computer on the LAN, but ONLY through the intervention of the server
> that controls it.  This includes printers that are, in fact, wired to
> the server via USB, etc., as well as those with direct (but secret) IP
> access.  The server, usually with tons of memory to spare, can easily
> accept jobs simultaneously from many senders and queue them.  It also
> can analyze the file content sent, and filter it appropriately.  Only
> the server computer needs to know the details of how to actually
> prepare the job for successful printing; the clients simply send print
> jobs to the server and let it figure out the details.  This is the
> *NIX way.
>
> It is the second configuration that is getting short shrift in the
> latest cups development.  It seems perfectly obvious that when a
> server "advertises" a printer's services, that each and every client
> should see that service queue automatically.  That's the very essence
> of the job that cups-browsed is created to do.  And it is what the
> newest version fails utterly to do, unless the config file is edited
> as I described.  The F26 version worked perfectly, exactly as I
> expected, so it is possible.
>
> One of my two printers is a bit rare and exotic.  It is a Brother
> HL-L8250CDN color laser printer, and is totally unknown to Fedora (and
> to Windows).  Fortunately, Brother has prepared installable .rpm files
> with the necessary drivers that I have downloaded and installed on the
> server computer.  They work perfectly.  But, considering all that
> trouble, why in the name of God, would I want to repeat that effort
> for each and every client computer that might want to use that
> printer?  That's just insane.  But that's the Microsoft way.

Have you considered implementing the other Microsoft way, which I'm not
sure how to do as I'm not a network technician but which a number of
organizations tend to do, and that is when the client does a network
browse for network printers, selects the printer that they want to use,
the server downloads and installs the driver on the client machine?
Admittedly, this still requires the client to prepare the data for
printing, but at least the server or the printer itself handles the
queuing of print jobs.


regards,

Steve


>> If cups-browsed is active then another entry is automatically added.
>> In my case, with the Epson printer (Expression ET 3700) I have cups
>> finds two entries provided from having installed the Epson supplied
>> driver (cups doesn't have native support), one using lpd and the
>> other using dnssd. The entry that gets auto added if cups-browsed is
>> active uses ipps and is specified as driverless, hence when selecting
>> paper types it doesn't know anything about Epson specific paper.
>>
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>> In F27 this no longer works.  But there is a workaround.
>>>
>>> I must now edit /etc/cups/cups-browsed.conf on each and every client
>>> machine to add these lines:
>>>      BrowsePoll datium
>>>      BrowsePoll datair
>>>      LocalQueueNamingRemoteCUPS RemoteName
>>>
>>> where datium and datair are _my_ servers with connected printers.
>>> Note that Fully Qualified Names, such as datium.datix.lan, are NOT
>>> acceptable.  With only two physical printers and a handful of client
>>> machines on my LAN, this is marginally tolerable;  with a much
>>> larger LAN, it isn't.
>>>
>>> I've complained in
>>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1518415 and in
>>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1525937.
>>> Apparently the "upstream" developers have a much different view than
>>> me of why Linux printing has traditionally been so successful and
>>> reliable and are hell-bent on "fixing" it.
>
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Re: cups sucks!!! Epilogue

Tim
On Tue, 2018-03-06 at 07:44 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote:
> Have you considered implementing the other Microsoft way, which I'm
> not sure how to do as I'm not a network technician but which a number
> of organizations tend to do, and that is when the client does a
> network browse for network printers, selects the printer that they
> want to use, the server downloads and installs the driver on the
> client machine? 
> Admittedly, this still requires the client to prepare the data for 
> printing, but at least the server or the printer itself handles the 
> queuing of print jobs.

Still a damn awful way to do things.  It gets even hairier if all your
client computers are different OSs.

Microsoft, and even MacOS are still crap at handling printers.  Just
the other week, I turned on the printer, and the OS insisted on
installing drivers for the printer.  Despite the fact that drivers were
already installed, and fully operational.

Even with a stand-alone networked printer, I still set it up to be
accessible through the LAN server.  That way any Linux box can print
easily through it without the shenanigans of specially setting up that
printer on each and every PC.

I don't know at what stage the original poster discovered CUPs being a
backwards designed schmozzle, but I'm sure it was working the old and
good way on my latest Fedora 26 installation.  I can't check now, the
motherboard went kablooey, last week.  And I'm back on an old Fedora 25
installation on my ancient laptop.  Not to mention that my LAN file &
printer server is completely ancient, and still on Fedora Core 4.

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Re: cups sucks!!! Epilogue

Stephen Morris
On 6/3/18 11:24 am, Tim wrote:

> On Tue, 2018-03-06 at 07:44 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote:
>> Have you considered implementing the other Microsoft way, which I'm
>> not sure how to do as I'm not a network technician but which a number
>> of organizations tend to do, and that is when the client does a
>> network browse for network printers, selects the printer that they
>> want to use, the server downloads and installs the driver on the
>> client machine?
>> Admittedly, this still requires the client to prepare the data for
>> printing, but at least the server or the printer itself handles the
>> queuing of print jobs.
> Still a damn awful way to do things.  It gets even hairier if all your
> client computers are different OSs.
>
> Microsoft, and even MacOS are still crap at handling printers.  Just
> the other week, I turned on the printer, and the OS insisted on
> installing drivers for the printer.  Despite the fact that drivers were
> already installed, and fully operational.
>
> Even with a stand-alone networked printer, I still set it up to be
> accessible through the LAN server.  That way any Linux box can print
> easily through it without the shenanigans of specially setting up that
> printer on each and every PC.
>
> I don't know at what stage the original poster discovered CUPs being a
> backwards designed schmozzle, but I'm sure it was working the old and
> good way on my latest Fedora 26 installation.  I can't check now, the
> motherboard went kablooey, last week.  And I'm back on an old Fedora 25
> installation on my ancient laptop.  Not to mention that my LAN file &
> printer server is completely ancient, and still on Fedora Core 4.

I have my home multifunction device connected to my router, so it is
effectively a network device. For obvious reasons if I go to add
printers in cups, it can't see the printer unless it is turned on. I use
the printer on my machine from Windows 10, Fedora and Ubuntu and from
Windows 10 on my wife's computer, so I have installed the Epson drivers
on all 4 operating systems. I need the Epson driver for Fedora and
Ubuntu as cups has no support for my device whatsoever. Having installed
the driver, with no printers defined at all in cups, if I go to Add
Printers, cups sees two network definitions for my device, one using lpd
and one using dnssd. If I select the lpd definition, cups adds that
printer once I select the driver, if I then go to Printers, with
cups-browsed active a second definition has automagically appeared that
is using ippd, which the definition says is driverless. None of these
drivers impress me with their level of support for the printer. The
printer is capable of printing at 4800x1200, but all of the drivers only
offer a print resolution of "Standard" or "High". If I'm using Windows
and doing a print from Photoshop Elements, Elements tells me the
standard print resolution is 300 dpi and the high print resolution is
600 dpi, and selecting the different Epson paper types make no difference.


regards,

Steve

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Re: cups sucks!!! Epilogue

Tim
On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 08:00 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote:
> I have my home multifunction device connected to my router, so it is 
> effectively a network device.

I suppose should be really specific and say, is that an ethernet (or
WiFi) connection between printer and router, or is the printer
connected to a USB port on your router (which may entail fun and games
as how the router presents a printer to the network).


> I need the Epson driver for Fedora and Ubuntu as cups has no support
> for my device whatsoever. Having installed the driver, with no
> printers defined at all in cups, if I go to Add Printers, cups sees
> two network definitions for my device, one using lpd and one using
> dnssd.

lpd is the old pre-CUPS-era way of doing things, if I recall correctly.

dnssd is one of those ZeroConf, Bonjour, Avahi protocols.  One of those
systems would have to be working properly for that to work as intended.

> If I select the lpd definition, cups adds that printer once I select
> the driver, if I then go to Printers, with cups-browsed active a
> second definition has automagically appeared that is using ippd,
> which the definition says is driverless.

I can't recall you saying what the printer actually is.  You've said
you've installed an Epson driver, perhaps it doesn't name itself in a
unique manner?  Perhaps it's not really a printing "driver", just
making it appear to the system?  If the printer directly accepts
PostScript, PDF, or one of a few common languages, perhaps CUPS does
the actual print driving.

> None of these drivers impress me with their level of support for the
> printer. The printer is capable of printing at 4800x1200, but all of
> the drivers only offer a print resolution of "Standard" or "High". If
> I'm using Windows and doing a print from Photoshop Elements, Elements
> tells me the standard print resolution is 300 dpi and the high print
> resolution is 600 dpi, and selecting the different Epson paper types
> make no difference.

A lot of printers are just 600 dpi printers, with software doing some
pretending to make the printing look crisper.

Selecting paper types may make no noticeable difference, it depends on
what the printer does with the information, it could affect any of:

Changing dithering patterns, slightly changing distance between the
print head and the paper, changing drying times, which inks it uses,
changing toner temperatures, simply selecting the right paper tray to
print from or too (e.g. cardstock requiring a straight through path),
offering/refusing double-sided printing, the range of print resolutions
it offers.

I distinctly hate having to deal with printers.  Firstly you have to
get it working, which can be a nightmare, even on their supported OSs.
A year or two after getting one you may find it impossible to get ink
or toner, or it's become ridiculously expensive.  Or they only supplied
a badly working driver for an old OS that can't be used on a newer one.

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