empty messages from fedora users list.

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empty messages from fedora users list.

William Mattison-2
Good morning,

Since March 08, I've received 11 messages from this list that appear empty, including 2 so far today.  I have received a few (less) not empty, none today and 3 yesterday.  What's causing this problem, and how do I fix it?  My e-mail client is Thunderbird 52.5.2.

I will occasionally check the Fedora Hyperkitty for replies.

thanks,
Bill.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Samuel Sieb
On 03/14/2018 09:10 AM, William Mattison wrote:
> Since March 08, I've received 11 messages from this list that appear empty, including 2 so far today.  I have received a few (less) not empty, none today and 3 yesterday.  What's causing this problem, and how do I fix it?  My e-mail client is Thunderbird 52.5.2.

Since you are receiving them, they are not completely empty.  Do they
have subjects?  What's in the headers?
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

William Mattison-2
hmmmm....
I did a "View source" on the most recent empty-looking message.  Everything is there.  The whole thing is 742 lines long.  You want the top how many lines?  Or how would I recognize the end of the header?

What displays in the header area (below the list of messages, above where the message body displays) of Thunderbird is:
From [hidden email]
Subject users Digest, Vol 169, Issue 74
To [hidden email]

Against the right margin of the Subject line is "05:45 AM"

thanks,
Bill.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Samuel Sieb
On 03/14/2018 10:46 AM, William Mattison wrote:
> hmmmm....
> I did a "View source" on the most recent empty-looking message.  Everything is there.  The whole thing is 742 lines long.  You want the top how many lines?  Or how would I recognize the end of the header?

The end of the header is the first blank line.

> What displays in the header area (below the list of messages, above where the message body displays) of Thunderbird is:
>  From [hidden email]
> Subject users Digest, Vol 169, Issue 74
> To [hidden email]

Did you copy and paste that?  There should be a colon after each of
those first words unless that is part of the body after the header.  It
sounds like you are using the digest version of the list.  Why?

> Against the right margin of the Subject line is "05:45 AM"

Not sure what you mean by this.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

William Mattison-2
Hi Samuel,

Using the "View source" function, here between the lines of '=' is the header (copied and pasted):

=====
X-Apparently-To: [hidden email]; Wed, 14 Mar 2018 11:45:33 +0000
Return-Path: <[hidden email]>
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=====

> Did you copy and paste that? There should be a colon [etc.]
No.  The only way of showing you the displayed header (from the message pane, not from the "View source" display) is by manually typing what I saw.  I did, and do, not see any colons in the displayed header.  I even looked with a magnifying glass.

> It sounds like you are using the digest version of the list. Why?
Correct.  Personal preference.  Otherwise, I get too many messages each day.

> Not sure what you mean by this.
In the message pane display, the full subject line looks like this:
Subject users Digest, Vol 169, Issue 74                                                                                                                         05:45 AM

thanks,
Bill.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Samuel Sieb
On 03/14/2018 12:58 PM, William Mattison wrote:
> Using the "View source" function, here between the lines of '=' is the header (copied and pasted):
>
> =====
> Content-Length: 33542
> =====

The header looks fine and there should be 33KB of content.  When you
view source do you see the message body?

>> Did you copy and paste that? There should be a colon [etc.]
> No.  The only way of showing you the displayed header (from the message pane, not from the "View source" display) is by manually typing what I saw.  I did, and do, not see any colons in the displayed header.  I even looked with a magnifying glass.

Oh, I misunderstood what that was.  I thought you were copying from the
actual headers, but you were showing what was in the top part of the
Thunderbird window.

>> Not sure what you mean by this.
> In the message pane display, the full subject line looks like this:
> Subject users Digest, Vol 169, Issue 74                                                                                                                         05:45 AM

Now that I know what you were describing, I understand.  Yes,
Thunderbird puts the timestamp at the right side of the window on the
same line as the subject.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

William Mattison-2
> The header looks fine and there should be 33KB of content. When you
> view source do you see the message body?

yes.  In "View source", I see 759 lines of stuff.  But most looks like "meta-data", not message body that I would expect to see in the Thunderbird window.  The first blank line is line 65, so the header is 64 lines long.

I don't know if this helps, but when messages that look blank in the Thunderbird window are downloading, the following error message shows just below the Gnome black bar at the top of the screen (in which the current date-time is displayed):
======
Thunderbird
The current operation on 'Inbox' did not succeed. The mail server for account [my e-mail address] responded: [UNAVAILABLE] UID FETCH Server error while fetching messages.
======
This error message shows up multiple times per empty-looking e-mail message.  Each failed download takes over a minute.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Patrick O'Callaghan
In reply to this post by Samuel Sieb
On Wed, 2018-03-14 at 13:10 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 03/14/2018 12:58 PM, William Mattison wrote:
> > Using the "View source" function, here between the lines of '=' is the header (copied and pasted):

[...]

Just so you both know, only Samuel's side of this conversation is
reaching me via the list. Can I assume that William is using Yahoo and
my Gmail account is throwing away his side, or is something else going
on?

poc
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Samuel Sieb
On 03/14/2018 04:05 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> Just so you both know, only Samuel's side of this conversation is
> reaching me via the list. Can I assume that William is using Yahoo and
> my Gmail account is throwing away his side, or is something else going
> on?

Yes, he has a Yahoo email account.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Samuel Sieb
In reply to this post by William Mattison-2
On 03/14/2018 02:51 PM, William Mattison wrote:
>> The header looks fine and there should be 33KB of content. When you
>> view source do you see the message body?
>
> yes.  In "View source", I see 759 lines of stuff.  But most looks like "meta-data", not message body that I would expect to see in the Thunderbird window.  The first blank line is line 65, so the header is 64 lines long.

Can you copy and paste a bit of it here.

> I don't know if this helps, but when messages that look blank in the Thunderbird window are downloading, the following error message shows just below the Gnome black bar at the top of the screen (in which the current date-time is displayed):
> ======
> Thunderbird
> The current operation on 'Inbox' did not succeed. The mail server for account [my e-mail address] responded: [UNAVAILABLE] UID FETCH Server error while fetching messages.
> ======
> This error message shows up multiple times per empty-looking e-mail message.  Each failed download takes over a minute.

Well, that seems likely to be the problem.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

William Mattison-2
In reply to this post by Patrick O'Callaghan
Patrick,

I am using the "fedora HYPERKITTY" web interface for all my posts to this thread.  But the e-mail address for my Fedora users list is a yahoo e-mail address.

Bill.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

William Mattison-2
In reply to this post by Samuel Sieb
I saved the "View source" window contents as a text file.  What is now the best way to get that file onto Fedora's paste bin?  Last time I tried that (last summer), it didn't work well.  Making the whole message available might be better than me trying to guess what would be helpful in diagnosing this problem.

Part of what I'm hoping you can help me with is why I'm getting those error messages, what's really going on, and what I can do about it.

thanks,
Bill.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Samuel Sieb
On 03/14/2018 04:43 PM, William Mattison wrote:
> I saved the "View source" window contents as a text file.  What is now the best way to get that file onto Fedora's paste bin?  Last time I tried that (last summer), it didn't work well.  Making the whole message available might be better than me trying to guess what would be helpful in diagnosing this problem.

Just run "fpaste file" and it will post the text and return a URL.  I
think fpaste is installed by default, but if not, then "dnf install fpaste".
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

William Mattison-2
In reply to this post by Samuel Sieb
ok, I figured out how to get the message into the Fedora paste site.  It can be viewed here:
"https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/LvQNrf-2pwpvnXbWWxOmow".

thanks,
Bill.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Samuel Sieb
On 03/14/2018 04:57 PM, William Mattison wrote:
> ok, I figured out how to get the message into the Fedora paste site.  It can be viewed here:
> "https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/LvQNrf-2pwpvnXbWWxOmow".

I saved that to a file and Thunderbird opened it with no problem.  Try
that yourself.  You will probably have to change the dropdown in the
bottom right of the open dialog to be "all files" instead of "mailbox".
I suspect that something to do with the download problems is causing the
blank message.  Try closing Thunderbird and open it again.  See if the
messages are visible after that.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

William Mattison-2
> I saved that [etc.]

That does work.

> ... Try closing ...

cough  gag  cough  cough  choke  gag  cough

On March 06, I started a thread titled "Thunderbird issue (OT).".  I never saw any replies.  The problem remains completely unsolved.  Actually, it's now worse!  I've experienced that problem a few times today.  So what you suggest has already been tried.  ... a few times.  ...even with a full power-down re-boot between 2 of the tries.  It did not work.  It can take quite a few tries (almost half an hour!) before I finally get a successful sign-in.

> I suspect that something to do with the download problems is causing the blank message.

I don't fully understand.  I viewed and saved the source, then we both successfully loaded that source back into Thunderbird and saw the message properly displayed.  So the message source was downloaded without corruption.  I agree with you in suspecting a connection between the download error messages and the blank-looking display.  But what would be that connection?  Is there anything I can do to fix it?

thanks,
Bill.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Samuel Sieb
On 03/14/2018 07:38 PM, William Mattison wrote:
>> I saved that [etc.]
>
> That does work.

Good, so that means that Thunderbird does eventually get the whole
intact message and can read it.

>> ... Try closing ...
>
> cough  gag  cough  cough  choke  gag  cough
>
> On March 06, I started a thread titled "Thunderbird issue (OT).".  I never saw any replies.  The problem remains completely unsolved.  Actually, it's now worse!  I've experienced that problem a few times today.  So what you suggest has already been tried.  ... a few times.  ...even with a full power-down re-boot between 2 of the tries.  It did not work.  It can take quite a few tries (almost half an hour!) before I finally get a successful sign-in.

What I was suggesting was just to reopen Thunderbird and see if the
message that you have already downloaded can be viewed.  Maybe put
Thunderbird in offline mode before restarting it.

>> I suspect that something to do with the download problems is causing the blank message.
>
> I don't fully understand.  I viewed and saved the source, then we both successfully loaded that source back into Thunderbird and saw the message properly displayed.  So the message source was downloaded without corruption.  I agree with you in suspecting a connection between the download error messages and the blank-looking display.  But what would be that connection?  Is there anything I can do to fix it?

I don't know.  I'm just suspecting that something in Thunderbird is
getting confused with all the errors, maybe an index file or something
like that.  I found some information that should help you debug the
connection problems.  The following assumes that you have successfully
connected and are just having trouble authenticating or downloading
email.  I'm also assuming you are using IMAP.  If it's POP3, then
substitute "POP3" for "IMAP" in the following instructions.

In a terminal enter "export MOZ_LOG_FILE=/path/to/logfile", then "export
MOZ_LOG=IMAP:5,timestamp".  Then run "thunderbird".  When you run into
the problem, close thunderbird and check the logfile.  If there is any
actual authentication info or other private info in it, edit it to
remove that.  Then upload the log somewhere.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

William Mattison-2
> What I was suggesting...

KSysGuard shows that yahoo feeds data to Thunderbird in very teeny chunks.  A message with an attached photo took about an hour to download yesterday.  I also access my e-mail from multiple workstation accounts and operating systems.  So some time ago, I set all my e-mail accounts to
*** not ***
keep messages on my workstation.  That is, "Message Synchronizing": "Keep messages for this account on this computer" is unchecked.  So messages have to be re-downloaded after every Thunderbird launch and account sign-in.

> In a terminal....

Yes, I use IMAP.
Tried it:
bash.4[~]: export MOZ_LOG_FILE=/[myhome]/thunderbird/log
bash.5[~]: export MOZ_LOG=IMAP:5,timestamp
...
bash.10[thunderbird]: thunderbird &
(I assume putting it in the background makes no difference in the logging.)
I tried it a few times.  I saw the same misbehavior as yesterday, but the log file remained empty.  I also tried it without the ampersand.  The log file is empty.  There are no subdirectories or other files in "/[myhome]/thunderbird/".
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Samuel Sieb
On 03/15/2018 08:51 AM, William Mattison wrote:
>> What I was suggesting...
>
> KSysGuard shows that yahoo feeds data to Thunderbird in very teeny chunks.  A message with an attached photo took about an hour to download yesterday.  I also access my e-mail from multiple workstation accounts and operating systems.  So some time ago, I set all my e-mail accounts to
> *** not ***
> keep messages on my workstation.  That is, "Message Synchronizing": "Keep messages for this account on this computer" is unchecked.  So messages have to be re-downloaded after every Thunderbird launch and account sign-in.

You're using IMAP, so why would you use this setting?  Are you saying
that you're using shared accounts and workstations?

> bash.10[thunderbird]: thunderbird &
> (I assume putting it in the background makes no difference in the logging.)
> I tried it a few times.  I saw the same misbehavior as yesterday, but the log file remained empty.  I also tried it without the ampersand.  The log file is empty.  There are no subdirectories or other files in "/[myhome]/thunderbird/".

I'll give it a try later.
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Re: empty messages from fedora users list.

Samuel Sieb
In reply to this post by William Mattison-2
On 03/15/2018 08:51 AM, William Mattison wrote:
> Tried it:
> bash.4[~]: export MOZ_LOG_FILE=/[myhome]/thunderbird/log
> bash.5[~]: export MOZ_LOG=IMAP:5,timestamp

Looking through the source code, I found that the environment variables
used are different now. You want "NSPR_LOG_FILE" and "NSPR_LOG_MODULES".
  It doesn't show the authentication lines.
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